Saturday, February 28, 2009

The Best Wedding Band Ever



Sad to say, but last night was my first show of the modern ONO era. Over the past few years, I have have been running into Travis (first) and P. Michael (more recently), more and more, but I had not made it to one of their shows yet. I cannot emphasize the importance of this band and those guys in my early industrial/experimental evolution. Buy me a drink and I will tell you my stories... I probably will, anyhow, or maybe I already have. You know, I forget...

But we are jumping ahead. Neil Jendon started the night out by suddenly switching "on" and blasting a hole through the north wall at Enemy with a totally inspired set of aggro guitar noise, using pedals as weapons and his modular synth to filter sound back into a dark, strange place. That got my heart pumping. Holy christ!

Ono was up next and what a show they put on! Early industrial meets minimal synth meets almost surfed-out coldwave guitars meets true Chicago outsider weirdness. Travis remains the ultimate frontman, not that there was any doubt in that department. Expanded to a four-piece, sans Ric Graham, but with a new guitarist and a new keyboardist, the band has a fuller sound then I recall from the 1980s. And they rocked the room... heads were bobbing, people were smiling. Excellent! I am looking forward to more. Someday, "Ennui" will be mine...

Jeff Host (Cleveland) and Ben Billington set up for a really nice, cosmic dual "progressive" synth workout, playing off of each other very nicely. I am enjoying this "synths in noise" trend quite a lot, especially when it is done well, like these two guys did, and when people know when it is time to stop. Again, kudos to Jeff and Ben for not dragging it on forver... not even close. It is also quite interesting to see Ben trying (and succeeding at) more and more things since stepping out from behind his drum kit.

Finally, a trio of David Russell (recent trade from Cleveland), Andrew Young, and Michael Forbes launched into an explosive free jazz noise set of upright bass (AY), sax (MF), and all of David's tabletop junk store madness. And speaking of frontmen, David also never disappoints. Whether with Jerk, Tanked, or various other human combinations, David makes each perfomance that he is in a comprelling one. While the freaked out jazz stuff might not be my favorite cup of tea, these three still executed an extremely interesting set to watch and to hear.

I was sorry that Scarcity of Tanks was not able to make it... Wasco, come back to Chicago...

Since yesterday evening, I have had the strangest craving to watch "A Clockwork Orange." If I can get my work done quickly, I might just do that. Kuma's also threatens today, same scenario... work... then a mega-rock show with my winter 2008-09 dark guitar obsession, All the Saints, plus Darker My Love and These Arms are Snakes...

Friday, February 27, 2009

Deluge

During a break in last night's intense thunderstorm, I made it over to Cobra Lounge to see an excellent set by my neighbor-cluster, Rabid Rabbit. Through a dense cloud of smoke-machine and crisscrossing lights, the band built a foundation of ultra-slow rumbling psychedelic doom that gave way to faster and more aggressive passages... the perfect sound for such a volatile night of weather extremes... which did not seem to dampen the crowd's size or enthusiasm...

Now, a deadline looms...

Thursday, February 26, 2009

Axehandle, Re-Visited

I may have had my issues with Alabama Thunder Pussy in the past, but visit number two to the mountain that is the Kuma's Axehandle was a success -- but it was a challenge, too -- especially since Isidro "insisted" on ordering mussels to start things off... at 11:45 AM, no less... about the only time that you can get a table there, these days...

Otto Song????

Well, it took me two tries to get through "Otto; Or, Up With Dead People" but I made it. I was totally surprised to see our friend Nicola Vinciguerra of Fecalove fame on the soundtrack, appearing as Splinter vs Stalin, alongside Throbbing Gristle, Black Sun Ensemble, Bryin Dall, etc. But my big question is, what song/band is playing at the end, when the credits start to roll? The track in question does not seem to be on the soundtrack CD released by Crippled Dick Hot Wax!

Mike IX on MTV Headbangers Blog

Just in time for Mardi Gras... here

Synth Pillows


(click to enlarge)

I do not think that I have quite the same gear obsession that I used to have, but these are pretty fun. If they could do a Roland MC-202, maybe it would create less dangerous in Pieter's hands, onstage...

http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=6852312

Status - 2/26

- Still in deep work mode...

- I got a large batch of packages (mail-order, Discogs, eBay) out on Tuesday night before practice. More stuff should go out by the end of the day, today

- And what a practice that was on Tuesday! Blake's "rig" seemed to triple in size with the addition of some new heavy-duty support stands, but the sounds emerging from within the framework were excellent. Things were firing on all cylinders and we made excellent progress. "Overcome" is pretty much as tight as can be and I think that we worked out any last compositional elements that were still needed on song number two. It is a monster, no doubt! The third "work-in-progress" still has a ways to go but I think that I am comfortable with the lyrics for that one

- By the end of this week I hope to have a demo to send to the Cadaver in Drag guys for the track that we are collaborating on for their (long delayed -- my fault!) CD on BloodLust! This is easily one of the most direct and venomous songs that I have penned in a loooong time...

Tuesday, February 24, 2009

Cosmic Renovation

Zoroaster did in fact seem to bend the cosmos a bit last night at the Empty Bottle. It was an excellent set. I loved the way the creepy Hellhammer/Celtic Frost sort of riffs would balance out the more psychedelic and driving doom aspects. There were some pretty strange synth freak-outs, too... It was a shame that Amen Ra had border issues. A very good night, though...

Monday, February 23, 2009

More on Redrot

The Redrot "Deviant" 7-inch vinyl is now in-house and the covers are expected in about a week. Expect an early March release...

Hair Police Poster



(Click to enlarge)

Locrian - Paris Transatlantic



Locrian
RHETORIC OF SURFACES
BloodLust!

It's raining. It's been raining off and on for the past week, either that or snowing. Bloody miserable. Perfect weather for enjoying this package of goodies from Chicago-based Locrian. Andre Foisy and Terrence Hannum – though maybe I'm not supposed to reveal their first names, as on the discs it's just A. Foisy and T. Hannum – play, if the back cover photograph of the Rhetoric of Surfaces CD is anything to go by, guitars, synths and a battery of FX pedals, and have, over the past four years, been digging deep into the extremely fertile (even if at first sight it might appear barren) wasteland between heavy drone and doom metal. Limited edition cassettes and CDRs have often been the group's medium of choice, but, like many of their peers in the world of noise, they've sought to preserve some of the rarer (and presumably by now OOP) gems in CD form.
Rhetoric of Surfaces is the one to get then, and the opening "Drosscape" – the only track not previously released, it seems – establishes the mood of the album from the get-go. Over an ominous backdrop of sustained low register synth tones, guitar lines teeter on the brink of uncontrollable feedback. It ends suddenly, but distortion and delay is the name of the game once more on "Burying The Carnival" (this is also available on a self-released cassette, along with a companion piece "Exhuming The Carnival", though the sound quality understandably leaves a little to be desired compared to the CD.. not that that's ever been a problem for fans of this kind of sound), with extreme high register metal-derived guitar lines screeching like demented seagulls over a decidedly chilly bassline semitone loop. Dark, doom-laden stuff to be sure, but ravens and elemental human dread notwithstanding, the tolling bell that opens "Visible / Invisible" is convincing – and musical. But the best is yet to come, with "Amps Into Instruments", a carefully structured epic which finally settles on a four-note bass riff (the same four notes as The Cure's "A Forest", actually.. intentional?) and builds impressively to a powerful conclusion.
http://www.paristransatlantic.com/


Sunday, February 22, 2009

Redrot Cover Sneak Peek

Saturday, February 21, 2009

BloodLust! Interview Series: #31 Sword Heaven Pt. 2



Aaron Hibbs (Sword Heaven, Noumena)

1. What have you been listening to lately?

Shit! We listened to a lot of modern rock on a recent tour. Fucking terrible and absolutely compelling, particularly Alice in Chains, STP, and Puddle of Mudd.

2. Have you been to any interesting concerts recently?

We hosted Diagram A at Skylab the other day. The dude totally slays!

The 6th Annual Miami International Noise Conference. I have attended every year, and always have a blast!

Highlights from this year's INC:

Kenny Millions - 65 year old avant - sax/clarinet player who absolutely shredded his instruments while berating the entire audience. "Go home and suck yr mom's tits you candy asses!"
God Willing - full on bass plow through the new and incredible Churchill's PA.
Small Pox - Urban Tribal Unit featuring Gay Bomb playing and screaming through a couple of paper card readers. heavy beats!
The Twilight Memories of the Three Suns - Somewhere in the realm of French Electro/Acoustic, but way crusty. disparate, abstract jams with a dude chopping wood, squealing tape manipulation, a reeded pvc tube, and a young lady pounding tabletops while squawking indecipherable words.
Laundry Room Squelchers - Of course, Rat Bastards uncompromising noise orgy. the living mosh-pit. no one was safe. fucking brutal!

3. Can you name a favorite film, or two (or a television program), from the last few months?

I watched "Cruising" with Al Pacino after we played a show in Chapel Hill. This movie totally blew me away! I can't believe it was even made! That scene in the leather daddy club where Pacino is huffing and dancing while a dude across the room gets fisted.... unbelievable!

4. Have you read a good book lately?

Occasionally I'll read while I'm taking a shit. It always bums me out when I sit down and there are no printed words in sight. My favorites are bathroom cleaning agents, woodworking catalogs, and Lear's Limericks:

There was an Old Man who supposed,
That the street door was partially closed;
But some very large rats,
Ate his coats and his hats,
While that futile old gentleman dozed.

uh.... I also scoped a cool zine about glory holes and some art books that Jeff from Noise Nomads made. Yeah!

5. Have you attended any recent art shows worth mentioning?

We just started having show in our kitchen. It's called "The Full Force Showcase Gallery." Right now, I'm helping install March's show by Eva Ball. There are only two pieces in the show. This afternoon I'll be hammering in the last nails in the word, 'freedom.' The 2' word is laid-out on the wall with tiny white nails pinning sequins to the surface. Next to that is an inflatable skeleton which has been painted a sickly green. The show looks great under our new track lighting!

6. Do you have any current obsessions of note?

I'm really into physical activity. We have invented numerous indoor games at our house. Among them is a game called Crossfire in which a deflated yoga ball must be throttled into your opponents goal by throwing footballs at it. That shit is FUN!

Also into Ganzfeld practice. It is kind of like a jump start to meditation or nothingness. You cut a ping pong ball in half. Place one half over each eye, then stare into a bright light source. This is done while listening to white noise on headphones. totally tripped out! It effectively cuts off your sensory arousal systems in your brain stem and turns your mind inward. It creates a weird 'outside' zone... disconnected from reality.

7. Please tell me what recordings, projects (any medium), etc., you are working on right now, if anything

I've been mastering tracks for a new Sword Heaven album. It is our first proper studio recording. The challenge has been to balance the cinematic depth in the tracks with a raw, forceful attack.

Also, working on a release that is straight vocals.... like the squealing animal sounds I make in SH.

I have an a capella grunge band called 'rage against the cage' for which I am constantly developing material. "defy-ee-Yi-ee yo-oooh oh-oooh-woah, no --- yeah!"

8. What do you hope to accomplish this year?

I plan to break the world record for Hula Hoop Marathon this summer. It would also be great to finish the deck of cards I have been developing with Carly Ptak. And... a more unhinged, nasty, and brutal incarnation of Sword Heaven.

9. Is there anything else that you would like to mention, announce, or hype?

A family member has recently rehabbed her narcotic addiction! I am very proud of her!


BLOODYMINDED @ Matchitehew


Just announced by Aquarius Records:
http://www.aquariusrecords.org/cat/newest.html

And we're also presenting an awesome black metal / noise festival taking place in June in Chicago, it's called Matchitehew, and you can get all the information here:

http://www.matchitehew.com/

And just to get an idea of what sort of festival it will be, have a look at some of the confirmed acts:

Bone Awl
Volahn
Velnias
Do Tremble and Fall Silent
Marblebog
Bloodyminded
Cadaver in Drag
Mammal
Burial Hex
HeatdeatH
Nondor Nevai
Locrian
Oakeater

And plenty more to come! Looks amazing already. We'll keep you updated on how to get tickets, and what other bands are playing. It's gonna be killer.

Friday, February 20, 2009

Locrian's Last?

For a while, at least. From Gapers Block Transmission:

Whole lotta Shaking Going On...in Hell

Ever been to Metal Shaker? Its existence is news to to me, I'll admit it. The bar (3394 N. Milwaukee) bills itself as "A heavy venue on the northwest side of Chicago," and looking at its lineup for these next two months, which are of course the heaviest of all months, I feel it is no hyperbole, friends. Nearly every day in the month of March seems to have an opportunity to see bands with names like If He Dies, He Dies, Embryonic Devourment, and Arbogast, as well as every Sunday's "Blackened Sabbath" nights, where local musicians spin their favorite death and thrash metal.

This Friday (February 20, 9 p.m.), the Metallic Shaking ones will encourage the ever-shifting barriers between black metal and experimental noise crumble just a bit further with a lineup of bands that work the necessary nexus between riff and wail, distortion and dissolution.

Acting as a record release party of sorts, the night's lineup will include the blessedly infernal Locrian, who will have copies of the their first pro-pressed CD release, Drenched Lands, available (co-released by Wisconsin's Small Doses label and At War With False Noise in the UK). I've written about them before on this site, and with the release of each new album, including their great CD-R on Bloodlust!, Rhetoric of Surfaces, the band hones their barbarous approach to drone-played-as-doom-metal to a jagged edge, capable of inflicting wounds that don't close. Soak 'em up, folks, this is the last Locrian show until summer, at least.

Also on board: The similarly-blackened duo Winters in Osaka, recent Ohio transplant David Russell (also head of the A Soundesign Recording label), and new duo Ratatosk (Jason Soliday of Enemy Space, Magic Missile, Coeurl, etc., and Ben Billington of Druids of Huge) will all lock hands and close the circle.

None of the signs I've seen say anything about cost of admission, but it is a bar (21+, yes), so make sure you have $5 in your pocket. If they don't ask for it at the door, buy yourself one of those newfangled beers the kids are drinking these days.

Chris Sienko


Original Sigillum S "Terror Auto-Obstetrics" on eBay

There is also a copy of the very rare Sigillum S "Terror Auto-Obstetrics" 7-inch single on eBay now

Buyer's Market on eBay

There is a copy of the rare "Buyer's Market" CD currently up on eBay. The seller also has some of Xavier's rare Timeless zines, etc.

Thursday, February 19, 2009

Recording and Mastering

It was a successful day in the studio! The BLOODYMINDED "PHASES : FOUR" 12-inch track and the remix of "Ten Suicides" for Mike Williams are (finally) both complete and I am extremely pleased with the results. Preview versions are being distributed to band members, respective record labels, etc., for evaluation. I hope to have more news on these two exciting releases, soon...

Now, back to "Within the Walls" and...

Sequences, etc.

How the interviews went out of sequence there at the end is beyond my comprehension...

Hopefully by the day's end I will be in possession of masters for the BLOODYMINDED "Phases : Four" 12-inch on Land o'Smiles and for the "Ten Suicides" remix for the Michael Williams single on Chrome Peeler...

BloodLust! Interview Series: #29 Right-Eye Rita

Right-Eye Rita (also of Walkie-Talkies, Bruce Lamont+Right-Eye Rita+Mark Solotroff, etc.)

1. What have you been listening to lately?

Other people talk

2. Have you been to any interesting concerts recently?

Bloodiest at the Empty Bottle got 5 star rating

3. Can you name a favorite film, or two (or a television program), from the last few months?

No, in fact I just awoke from a bad dream where I was expected to watch a cartoon everyone thought was funny and edgy that I thought was boring.

4. Have you read a good book lately?

I can't sit through a book, but it was encouraging to read an article about Robert Morris, who pretty much single-handedly funded the Revolutionary War, before being f-ed over by the US Government for all his hard work. What a quandary: an infant nation fighting against taxation was unjustified to levy its own taxes even to feed, clothe, and arm its own men. RM used his own fortune to pay soldiers and prevent a revolt, blah blah blah but died penniless. It showed me that all people have had to watch their backs in business from day 1


5. Have you attended any recent art shows worth mentioning?

No but I'm champing at the bit to go to the Art Institute for the 7th-13th century Chinese and Korean ceramics (there through Jun 7)

6. Do you have any current obsessions of note?

Playing with the resurrected Walkie-Talkies, a trio of drums, two singers, guitar, bass, keyboard, violin, and melodica.

7. Please tell me what recordings, projects (any medium), etc., you are working on right now, if anything

I am remastering some old RER tracks with Audacity, and also returning to work with a 4-track cassette recorder which seems to give more even tone quality than my digital multi-tracker which has no individual track EQ.

8. What do you hope to accomplish this year?

Sampling all the products at Ann's Bakery (near Chicago & Leavitt)


9. Is there anything else that you would like to mention, announce, or hype?

I have an upcoming solo show series at Links Hall (http://www.linkshall.org/) Mar.21,22, and 23, where I hope to employ some neo-futurist kinetic costume techniques within my audio delivery.

Wednesday, February 18, 2009

Spinning at 45 Today

BloodLust! Interview Series: #30 Greh Holger

Greh Holger (Cleanse, Hive Mind, Black Sand Desert, Acid Bed, Black Rubber, Chainfight, Crosse Humiliation, Gate To Gate, Greh Wolfs, Kvlts, Miscarriage, Obelisk, S.P., etc.)

1. What have you been listening to lately?

Prurient - Black Post Society -- a pleasant meshing of the older atmospheric disturbance and harsh/power electronics work with his modern synth style, and some grotesque vocals.
Kate Bush - The Kick Inside -- always a favorite to put on, been getting regular play at work.
Lots of different John Fahey stuff after recently getting turned on to him. Just puts me in the right zone.
and what seems like a million of those "Return to/Tribute to/whatever" Flexipop comps circulating on the net.
Various tape masters that I've received lately have been killing me, notably Pax Titania, Raglani and David Russell as well as lathe masters from Envenomist and Dilloway.

2. Have you been to any interesting concerts recently?

Tim & Eric Awesome Show Tour 2009 was the last major thing I've seen, as well as a pair of Awesome Color shows that had me banging my head and chugging whiskey. T&E had me cracking up the entire show doing skits or characters from the TV show, playing video interludes and having some of the shows staples perform their bits.

3. Can you name a favorite film, or two (or a television program), from the last few months?

Unfortunately I'm addicted to horrible VH1 and Bravo reality programming, so Rock of Love Bus, Top Chef, Tool Academy, Celebrity Rehab & Sober House. Also just watched a stretch of the original Peter Sellers Pink Panther movies which I hadn't seen since childhood and were even better than I'd remembered.

4. Have you read a good book lately?

I'm constantly reading these days.

Tattoo the Wicked Cross by Floyd Salas - I just started this but the way it is written really has me wrapped up. It's very poetic and grim, taking for example a few pages to describe how utterly dismal a room and the view from it are in great detail.
Lordotics by Peter Sotos - Keep picking this one up and putting it down. I'm enjoying it but it hasn't sucked me in the way Comfort & Critique did, which is a shame because it seems his writing has gotten better and a bit more cohesive on this one. Giving it time!
Russian Criminal Tattoo Encyclopedia vol. 3 - Just as good as the previous two. The accompanying text is good and informative but the photos and drawings are the real meat.
The Man in High Castle by Philip K. Dick - a re-read that I couldn't avoid after chugging through several other PKD novels. Spurred on partly by the cover of the new Dave Philips LP on RRR. The main stories in the book are interesting but I find myself most drawn to the concepts of historicity, collectability and authenticity vs forgery subplot involving Frink, Childan and the young Japanese couple, as well as how that ties into the false identities and multiple realities in the book.

5. Have you attended any recent art shows worth mentioning?

Art shows? In Detroit? I wish.

6. Do you have any current obsessions of note?

My Xerox machine, Life Nature/Science Library books, some synth modules I just picked up.

7. Please tell me what recordings, projects (any medium), etc., you are working on right now, if anything

I'm working on the next Hive Mind album, a bit more conceptual than previous recordings and using a wider variety of equipment and home-made "instruments". I'm also working on a book of collage and continuing to expand Chondritic past the realm of only doing audio. I plan to collaborate more with Damion Romero while I'm out in LA later this month.

8. What do you hope to accomplish this year?

Moving to Los Angeles in the summer is the main goal right now. I'm out there visiting for the last half of February and getting the lay of the land. More vinyl on Chondritic Sound, and continuing the lathe series.

9. Is there anything else that you would like to mention, announce, or hype?

Nope.

Another Anniversary



After finishing my "metal" duties for the night I cannot help but think about Tim Aher's (at center with white collar) death, one year ago...

Tuesday, February 17, 2009

BloodLust! Interview Series: #28 Timeless

Xavier Laradji (publisher of Timeless and member of BLOODYMINDED)

1. What have you been listening to lately?

Early Acid Bath, Threshold House Boys Choir

2. Have you been to any interesting concerts recently?

TG - 32 annual report - Paris - June - 08
Fran├žois Bayle+Bernard Parmegiani - Toulouse - November 08

3. Can you name a favorite film, or two (or a television program), from the last few months?

Star 80, Enter the Void

4. Have you read a good book lately?

Last ones from Sergei Bratkov, Izima Kaoru, Ed Templeton, and an old Araki book called Arakigraph

5. Have you attended any recent art shows worth mentioning?

Shuji Tateishi at Sutido Parabolica (Tokyo)

7. Please tell me what recordings, projects (any medium), etc., you are working on right now, if anything

Stu Mead "Drawings"
Philip Best "Rosebed"

8. What do you hope to accomplish this year?

My books

9. Is there anything else that you would like to mention, announce, or hype ?

Crisis ?? where ?? I've got a great new job !!!!!!

Monday, February 16, 2009

Back to eBay

I have started posting items for auction on eBay again. There will be more than just music stuff. Please check here: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/bloodlustchicago

Evil Seagull

"Sub-Stance"

Video by Petulia Mattioli - San Francisco, 2008 - Music by Sigillum S, from "23/20"

Axehandle, etc.

- The February special at Kuma's was fucking great! It is like the Slayer's Southern breakfast cousin, sort of. We had a nice Midwest BLOODYMINDED meet up, last night, with added Milwaukee crew

- I got a copy of the new Locrian "Drenched Lands" CD (on At War with False Noise/Small Doses) yesterday, and it looks and sounds excellent. I like being able to hear the re-mastered version of their song, "Greyfield Shrines," all in one go, too. Really cool packaging and design, with more of Kelly Rix' cold and dark photography. I am looking forward to getting down to work on the LP version, soon...





- It looks like the pressing plant with the Redrot single is closed for President's Day, so approval will have to wait until tomorrow. The test pressings sound great, though, filled with all of the pummellingly deep bass contained on the master The Redrot 7-inch test pressing is Approved!

- Additional weekend listening (post "Destertshore...) ...And You Will Know Us by the Trail of Dead "The Century of Self" -- Good, but I may be growing out of this band, at this point. And the new Circlesquare ("Songs about Dancing and Drugs") has kind of fallen flat for me. More Ulan Kohl, more To Blacken the Pages...

BloodLust! Interview Series: #27 Wilt

James Keeler (Wilt, Hedorah, Astronomy, the OR/CO label, etc.)

1. What have you been listening to lately?

Brutal Truth, Eyehategod on vinyl, Electric Wizard: Come my Fanatics and Dopethrone, Lull, Steve Roach, NTT and a few late 60s early 70s Pink Floyd bootlegs. And the amazing Luasa Raelon's House of Meat.

2. Have you been to any interesting concerts recently?

No. Been a while since I've climbed out of the cave. But I have watched a few good Live DVDs lately. Stoyfest from Freak Animal, Pink Floyd live at Pompeii, Prurient and The Rita Live in Chicago bootlegs.

3. Can you name a favorite film, or two (or a television program), from the last few months?

Been on an Ingmar Bergman binge lately, Hour of the Wolf, Persona, Virgin Spring and Wild Strawberries. Great scores and cinematography. Oh yeah, and Venture Brothers on DVD. As well as Godzilla vs Hedorah, Terror of Mechagodzilla and Invasion of the Astro Monster. Fulci's, City of the Dead.

4. Have you read a good book lately?

C.J. Jung's "Dreams", "Anthology for a New Millennium by R. Buckminster Fuller and H.P. Lovecraft's "At the Mountains of Madness."

5. Have you attended any recent art shows worth mentioning?

No. Again lost in the labyrinth of the caves, but I've been diggin a lot of Nicolas Bohac, Camille Rose Garcia and Mars-1 work on the internet.

6. Do you have any current obsessions of note?

Packaging design. Sound experimentation, finally taking the time to explore all my electronic options and the myriad of alternates it generates. Designer Vinyl. Painting both organically and digitally. My DIY Lofi Label, The Institute for Organic Conversations {OR/CO}.

7. Please tell me what recordings, projects (any medium), etc., you are working on right now, if anything

WILT:

1. "Nine Chains to the Moon" our next dark electronics/instrumental opus for Ad Noiseam Records. Going on year two of development.

2. An untitled new full length for Force of Nature Productions (FON) thats insanely dark psychedelic noisescapes.

3. A remix for FON.

4. Plus several TBD releases on other DIY labels, when more details are finalized.

5. Pulling together several unreleased materials, live recordings and remixes/collabs with other artists for a 10 yr anniv. 2 CD set from Ad Noiseam called, "Dead Electroniks" coming out later this year.

HEDORAH:

1. Collab with Katchmare.

2. Working on a new E.P. called, "The End of the World".

3. Remix for FON.

ASTRONOMY:

1. New full length with Michael Palace {Horchata} joining the fold to give more diversity to the electronics portion of our sound. Michael has an insane synth rig set up in his house that is built from modules from the 70s. Great vintage sounds. Label and title TBD.

8. What do you hope to accomplish this year?

All of the above and to keep putting out special limited releases on my {OR/CO} label. Oh yeah, and keeping my job.

9. Is there anything else that you would like to mention, announce, or hype?

Several finished releases are about to land soon.

From my {OR/CO} label I have:

The Complete Kingdom Recordings. 4xc62 Boxset
Its the complete collab between Prurient + Wilt resurrected.
A 4x cassette boxset housed in a wooden box that used to hold slides, comes with a 20+ page visual supplement bound with red stitching, and a black worship candle. All sealed in the box, wrapped in black plastic and bound with red duct tape. The recordings contain all the unreleased and unused samples, alternates and new visions not used on the Blood of the Lamb LP. This should be ready for pre-order as soon as we get word on when the LP will be in stock from BLOODLUST!.

MINOTAUR: Her Blood was Fire e.p. CDR in special packaging
Powerful UK vs US PE.

Amputation Theory: Scum. CDR in special packaging
Hardcore. Sludge. Noise. NoFI.

James P. Keeler: Variations for Electric Organ. casstte packaged in recycled vinyl cases with 8x8 folded poster insert.
Abstract tones and frequencies.

HEDORAH: Flower e.p. CDR in dvd style packaging with full color art and insert.
Fall of Because meets the Incapacitants. Harsh sludge recordings and mountains of doom.

and from CIPHER PRODUCTIONS

WILT: Southern Cross
Limited edition lathe cut 7" with c40 and inserts contained in a black cloth bag with the wilt logo on the outside. Looks and sounds amazing. Very dark noise, drone, sludgy electronics and some tripped out folk atmospheres. Sort of BM meets shaman.

Lastly, thanks to you Mark for everything. Your still one of the coolest dudes I've ever met!


Sunday, February 15, 2009

BloodLust! Interview Series: #26 Failing Lights

Mike Connelly (Failing Lights, Wolf Eyes, Hair Police, The Haunting, the Gods of Tundra label, etc.)

1. What have you been listening to lately?

Irish folk music..especially Mary o'Hara..she plays harp and sings..anything on the original Tradition Records, Pat's People, Wolfe Tones, Ourselves Alone..more.

2. Have you been to any interesting concerts recently?

I just got back from Berlin w/Hair Police. Also on the bill was some people doing a Stockhausen piece in which they fasted for 4 days leading up to set, Josephine Foster, some lectures and panel discussions...and Hair Police. I would say the word "interesting" describes that gig perfectly.

3. Can you name a favorite film, or two (or a television program), from the last few months?

Fruit of Paradise, Bone, Delicatessen, House (Hausa).

4. Have you read a good book lately?

"Inside the Mind of BTK" by John Douglas, "Hellboy: Darkness Calls", "Lullaby" and "Survivor" by Chuck Palahniuk, "A Drink With Shane MacGowan" by MacGowan.

5. Have you attended any recent art shows worth mentioning?

No, but Tara has been doing some really fucking incredible small sculpture/assemblage type things that I look at everyday.

6. Do you have any current obsessions of note?

The same sights, sounds and ideas that I'm always obsessed with.....and chess.

7. Please tell me what recordings, projects (any medium), etc., you are working on right now, if anything

New records from both HP and Wolf Eyes this year..currently finishing up both. Also full length Failing Lights album for Intransitive as well as a million other things--music and painting--on a daily basis.

8. What do you hope to accomplish this year?

Beat Olson in chess.

9. Is there anything else that you would like to mention, announce, or hype?

There will be plenty of touring with both HP and Wolf Eyes in 09...so see you in the pit.

Saturday, February 14, 2009

Distro Update

I am starting to weed through the distro list and I will be cleaning out some non-active contacts.

BloodLust! Interview Series: #25 Twodeadsluts Onegoodfuck

A Special Saint Valentine's Day Posting...

Twodeadslut Onegoodfuck (answered by Ted Sweeney and Shane Broderick)

1. What have you been listening to lately?

Ted: In terms of non-traditional music I've been listening to a lot of tape and cut-up music. Women of The SS, Runzelstirn & Gurgelstock (and the rest of the Schimpfluch Gruppe), and Vagina Dentata Organ. As always there are the rock music mainstays that never really seem to drift to far from my record player a la Black Sabbath, My Bloody Valentine, Swans, and a lot of other obvious staples.

Shane: Gore Beyond Necropsy.

2. Have you been to any interesting concerts recently?

Ted: I was able to check out an Angeldust performance in my old basement the other night. Those guys are just plain fucking fantastic. And I may be partial on this one, but I cannot forget to mention Methfest.

Shane: Halloween Night in Providence was amazing. Hundreds of people showed up at an Olneyville Warehouse and it was a fucking epic. 20 plus bands played on two or three "stages". I was totally floored by how large the event actually was. A guy with an espresso stand, cage wrestling matches and lots of young wasted R.I.S.D. girls not wearing much. Suffering Bastard played all GG covers. Classic.

3. Can you name a favorite film, or two (or a television program), from the last few months?

Ted: I finally got around to seeing the last episode of "Trailer Park Boys" and I have to say out of all the seasons it may have been my favorite episode ever. I think I heard they're basing their next movie on it. For Christmas I was given the Criterion Collection of "Salo," and have to say that the film can be watched and re-watched ad nauseam.

Shane: "The Real Word Brooklyn" and that new Clint Eastwood movie.

4. Have you read a good book lately?

Ted: I was really surprised by how much I enjoyed Catherine Breillat's “Pornocracy.“ Raging feminist literature but her command of language is just so lush and visceral. I really need to get around to checking out her films. I re-read “Animal Farm” a few days ago and was so happy with how much I still enjoyed it. I also had the biggest letdown of the year reading the 33 1/3 of “Reign in Blood,” which was an absolute letdown.

Shane: Lots of manuals and various recording theory books.

5. Have you attended any recent art shows worth mentioning?

Ted: Absolutely nothing worth mentioning. Boston does have its downfalls.

Shane: Not so much.

6. Do you have any current obsessions of note?

Ted: Playboy Magazine from the first few years of the seventies, pinot grigio with two ice cubes, and the women who brave the vicious Boston winters with the shortest of skirts.

Shane: Building my Recording Studio. Playing Synths. Rubbing on the Red Line girls.

7. Please tell me what recordings, projects (any medium), etc., you are working on right now, if anything

Ted: Twodeadsluts Onegoodfuck are wrapping up the finishing touches on Champagne and Biological Women, a seven inch that wouldn't be possible without the help of one of the sexiest men I know. We have also begun writing new material that is in a starkly different direction from our past few releases. Animal Steel has its second release coming up. It is a split with The Hierchiss. Really powerful and luscious music that girl does. There is talk of a book of haiku-collages I've assembled over the years tentatively being released by Heavy Psych this year as well.

Shane: I am starting a little record label tentatively named Lascivious Aesthetics with upcoming cassette releases from Suffering Bastard, Angeldust, Cock E.S.P., Joshua Hydeman, Corephallism and hopefully helping put out the Twodeadsluts Onegoodfuck / Warmth 10" Vinyl with my tax returns. I am finishing up the recording of my first solo release as Corephallism which will be coming out soon from our good friends at Apop Records. Maybe I’ll get around to putting together the 2nd Annual Northeast Noise & Power Electronics Festival this summer (hint hint, nudge nudge to all BloodLust! artists).

8. What do you hope to accomplish this year?

Ted: Two chicks at the same time.

Shane: Touring all over the fucking place with these guys and on the solo front. After reading your interview with John Balistreri... I have to add that I am looking forward to watching the Boston Red Sox win the World Series. Along with the Celtics, Bruins and Patriots, all winning Championships.

9. Is there anything else that you would like to mention, announce, or hype?

Ted: I cannot recommend the Destructive Industries catalog enough to anyone who has not had a chance to check it out. It seems like there's a few sleepers on that label (with special attention to Knox Om Pax's “Laudunum”) which I cannot believe don't get the attention they warrant.

Shane: Well I think we already covered the obvious name dropping. Don’t ya’ think??? I would like to give a shout out to Club Cheaters in Providence. Real classy full service joint which I cannot believe doesn’t get the attention they warrant and rightly deserve. Good.

Friday, February 13, 2009

Advance Notice: BLOODYMINDED Live

Just announced:

Tuesday April 28, 2009
9:30 PM
$15.00
The Empty Bottle
1035 N. Western Avenue
Chicago, Illinois 60622
http://www.emptybottle.com/
773.276.3300

Tony Conrad and Keiji Haino
David Daniell and Doug McCombs
BLOODYMINDED

Redrot Update

The test pressings for the Redrot "Deviant" b/w "White Walls" (B!109) single finally arrived. The record sound great, upon first listen, so things should be moving forward as of next week. More details to follow...

Organ of Corti




I often forget how beautiful some of these Gray's Anatomy lithographs are...

Exploration One on eBay

A copy of the rare "Exploration One" CD with exclusive Intrinsic Action songs is currently up on eBay


BloodLust! Interview Series: #24 Sword Heaven



Mark Van Fleet (Sword Heaven, Face Place, etc.)


1. What have you been listening to lately?

Epic mid winter home improvement painting sessions means Country music LP comps, lots of YES (all periods), lots of CSN&Y, Leonard Cohen, Ray Charles, various soft rock LP's, etc. I really like the newest Haves n Thirds tape. Jen (my wife) and I have been listening to a lot of Tangerine Dream. I also think that Rusted Shut 12" EP on Dull Knife is amazing.

2. Have you been to any interesting concerts recently?

I try to get out to most shows, but the best thing I've seen so far in 2009 was My Left Uterus from Tampa FL.

3. Can you name a favorite film, or two (or a television program), from the last few months?

Just watched the final season of The WIRE on dvd. Jen and I watched all five seasons in the past year. Also, we watched the 4th season of LOST in like two weekends.

4. Have you read a good book lately?

I read The Road by Cormac McCarthy last week, which I thought was great. Pretty bleak book. Great simple dialogue. The son must ask the father twenty times whether they are about to die. Most of the book is Hemingway-esque description, and most of that description is about scavenging for food, or trying to make camp in the sleet and rain. Still, in all that description, there is a really powerful connection between the father and the son. It's tender too. Bleak and tender. I've kind of been thinking a lot recently about post apocalyptic sorts of scenarios, and I just borrowed a VHS copy of The Final Combat (aka Le Dernier Combat) which I haven't seen in probably ten years, but watched a bunch of times when I was in High School. Otherwise, I read magazines about sailing (like Cruising World and Latitudes and Attitudes) and almost never read books. That was the first book in a while.

5. Have you attended any recent art shows worth mentioning?

I work at an art museum, but sadly, I haven't seen much that really blew me away. The huge Warhol show at the museum I work at is pretty good though. I liked the After Nature show I saw at the New Museum in NYC in the fall.

6. Do you have any current obsessions of note?

(left blank)

7. Please tell me what recordings, projects (any medium), etc., you are working on right now, if anything

Finalizing a new Sword Heaven album (recorded in late October, mixed over the last month, hopefully to be released at some point this year) and Aaron and I are writing some new songs. I'm doing a project with the guy I borrowed Le Dernier Combat from called Group Birth. Somehow, it's informed by ideas about the Apocalypse. Face Place has not practiced in a half a year, but we talk about it sometimes. Face Place will be on two vinyl splits that will come out this year though. I've been thinking it might be cool to do some Face Place-esque collaborations. Maybe as part of a larger electro acoustic sort of group. I have some other ideas for bands/ formations which may never get anywhere. Maybe with Ryan Jewell. I formed a scum rock band called Bath House a few years ago which still exists though we've only played like 4 shows in 2 years. We were asked yesterday to play another one. We've talked about trying to record a 7" or something. Basement rock n roll sessions continue with old friends as they always will. I've been doing a print zine called Married Life. It's a quarterly, and the 4th issue will be out in the next month or so I think. I have all the material, just need to layout, print, and assemble.

8. What do you hope to accomplish this year?

I'd like to tour a bit. Hit some spots we haven't been to for a while, but it probably won't be real extensive. Release that Sword Heaven album. I guess I'm going to remodel my bathroom. Sail a lot this summer. Maybe work on some solo stuff?

9. Is there anything else that you would like to mention, announce, or hype?

I think I covered it already.


Thursday, February 12, 2009

Sessions, etc.

- Thus far, "Desertshore..." is interesting, if a much lower-energy experience when compared to airings of The Stooges "1970: The Complete Funhouse Sessions"

- Save the date: Tuesday March 17, 2009 - Hair Police at The Mopery with (?)

- Post-telephone call with Rococo... BLOODYMINDED "Phases : Three" - back on track... revised... the color vinyl shortage persists in forcing unwanted decisions...

A(n) (Un)Sound Plan

Intense work/computer day(s) ahead. The Songbird player is loaded up and in-progress for the following binge-out:

Nico "Desertshore"
(followed by)
Throbbing Gristle "The Desertshore Installation" 12xCD



BloodLust! Interview Series: #23 Martial Canterel

Sean McBride (Martial Canterel, Xeno and Oaklander, Three to Forgotten)

1. What have you been listening to lately?

In no particular order: Das Ding, Peter Tedstone, Stanislas Kadik, Vangelis (Blade Runner), Toru Takemitsu, Die Bunker, DZ Lectric, Lustans Lakejer (1st LP), Y Gwasgwyr, Camerata Mediolanense, Neva (first 2 cassettes), Thanasis Zlatanos, Regard

2. Have you been to any interesting concerts recently?

Besides watching the week-nightly show of the local schizophrenic walking down the middle of the street hollering at the top of his about the fathers, the daughters and the Jewish banks exposing their daughters bellies, I have been to the Wierd party to see Further Reductions, N., Epee Du Bois. Not wanting to get out these days.

3. Can you name a favorite film, or two (or a television program), from the last few months?

PD James Mysteries series (11 DVD boxset) with Roy Marsden as Dagliesh, Midsummer Murders (Season 9& 10), Dorothy Sayers Mysteries with Edward Petherbridge as Lord Peter Whimsy, Blue Murders with Caroline Quentin ala Jonathan Creek. As for films...The Changeling, Accident, Kwaidan, Face of Another, Onibaba, Fires on the Plain.

4. Have you read a good book lately?

"Discovery of France" - Graham Robb, "Antoine's Alphabet - Watteau and His World" - Jed Perl

5. Have you attended any recent art shows worth mentioning?

Hard to get out. The sadness remains indoors.

6. Do you have any current obsessions of note?

Just synthesizers. Not current per se but an enduring obsession nonetheless.

7. Please tell me what recordings, projects (any medium), etc., you are working on right now, if anything

Finishing up a new LP for Martial Canterel due out in a few months on the Wierd Record label. Also putting the finishing touches on the debut LP from Xeno and Oaklander, as well, due out on the Wierd records label in a few months time. Looking to release a K7 comp on Xanten of various analog synthesizer artists currently working.

8. What do you hope to accomplish this year?

Greater agility and flexibility with my live shows. Visit Gros Morne National Park in Newfoundland.

9. Is there anything else that you would like to mention, announce, or hype?

Beware...countless abortions are attempting to come to life. Need to run the bandwagon off the road.

Wednesday, February 11, 2009

Office Ambience

To Blacken the Pages "A Semblance of Something Appertaining to Destruction"
To Blacken the Pages "None"
To Blacken the Pages "And We Started Again, as if Nothing had Happened Before"
Circlesquare "Songs about Dancing and Drugs"

BloodLust! Interview Series: #22 Locrian

Locrian (Andre Foisy and Terence Hannum; both also of Unlucky Atlas)

1. What have you been listening to lately?

AF: Ramses III: "Honey Rose"; White/Light: "Black Acts"; Creation is Crucifixion "Automata"; Popul Vuh "In the Gardens of the Pharao/Aguirre"

TH: Expo 70/I Am Sea Monster split 7" + Mammal "Distant Days" CS + Deathspell Omega/SVEST split LP + M83 "Saturdays=Youth" + Leviathan "Massive Conspiracy to End All Life"

2. Have you been to any interesting concerts recently?

AF: Been too busy lately, but Ratatosk (or whatever Jason Soliday and Ben Billington are calling themselves now were really good, but I think that I last saw them play in November. I'm looking forward to hearing some recorded stuff from them. Mark Fry was surprisingly good when I saw him play at the Empty Bottle for the "A Million Tongues" fest. Death Factory was great when I saw him at the Metal Shaker. I know I've missed a bunch of good shows in the last few months.

TH: Not really lately, but in the past year I saw Horna and HeatdeatH who were impressive.

3. Can you name a favorite film, or two (or a television program), from the last few months?

AF: I've pretty much been busy trying to prep for my classes, but I've been watching Aelita: Queen of Mars, a Russian science fiction film from the 1920s. In the film, Mars is a capitalist planet and the Martians stage a proletariat revolution. It's pretty great.

TH: Lately GW Pabst's "The Threepenny Opera" + "Pandora's Box" are two amazing pieces of silent and early sound cinema have me really interested in that transitional period.

4. Have you read a good book lately?

AF: I finally read "The Road" by Cormick McCarthy. That book was amazing. It was really dark, apocalyptic and strangely uplifting. I was reading Walter Benjamin's unfinished "Arcades Project" to coincide with my trip to Paris earlier this month.

TH: I just finished a really interesting book called "The Magic Mirror" on early Russian film that I found fascinating, most are films that only survive in fragments, and some not at all, but it was really interesting. I am now in the middle of Michael Fried's new book "Why Photography Matters as Art as Never Before". Clunky title, interesting book so far if you enjoy work by Jeff Wall, Jean-Marc Bustamante, Stephen Shore, etc.

5. Have you attended any recent art shows worth mentioning?

AF: The Michael Wolf show at the Museum of Contemporary Photography was great. I recommend checking it out if you can.

TH: Definitely, Harold Mendez at the MCA 12x12 in Chicago was a great sound installation and Pedro Velez at Western Exhibitions was a good time unfortunately most art has not really impressed me lately. I did enjoy the Sigalit Landau exhibition at MoMA that I saw this summer, mainly the videos, and Sean Dack at Daniel Reich was a pleasant surprise. And if I am going back to the summer I might as well mention Richard Serra's impressive "Promenade" at the Grand Palais in Paris.

6. Do you have any current obsessions of note?

AF: Probably...this week: St. Anger era Metallica. I just rewatched the Metallica documentary which was directed by Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky. It's a really well made film, but ever since I rewatched it, I've been listening to the St. Anger album. I guess in order to torture myself. If that's an obsession, then it's not a healthy one.

TH: The insane environmental disaster at Kingston Steam Plant in Tennessee, that has gone tragically underreported. The images are gorgeous but the result was horrendous. Nothing like a bath in benzene and carcinogens. Also the interesting cassette package designs Peter Saville did for Factory Records in the 1980s.

7. Please tell me what recordings, projects (any medium), etc., you are working on right now, if anything

AF: I'm working on bass for Twilight Congregation, a collaborative project w/AJS from Velnias and Slo from France. I'll probably finish my bass parts within the next month. We just finished the new Unlucky Atlas recording which we'll hopefully release soon.

TH: Our collaborative recording between Blake Judd (Nachtmystium), Bruce Lamont (Yakuza), AJS (Velnias) and Mr. Solotroff. Finishing a video for a show in LA at Jail Gallery this May, and writing my book on Earth2 on the slight chance that 33 1/3 will pick it up. Plus the new Unlucky Atlas record "An Natural History of the Dead".

8. What do you hope to accomplish this year?

AF: As far as music goes: working on booking a short tour (maybe a week or a bit more) of the UK this summer. Hopefully, we can finish up some recordings and get them out before long. I'd like to work on some material with more structure. I'd love to get in the studio more and to incorporate new elements into our music.

TH: Welcome my healthy daughter to the world. Finish some paintings and videos, make some grim music.

9. Is there anything else that you would like to mention, announce, or hype?

AF: Thanks for all your support Mark!

TH: Our second studio recording, after the 7" on Bloodlust!, titled "Drenched Lands" will be released by Small Doses & At War With False Noise on CD soon.

Tuesday, February 10, 2009

Listening

Kleistwahr "The Return" LP (Noiseville)
Cindytalk "Camouflage Heart"
Swans "Cop"
To Blacken the Pages (various songs)
Bad Party "Coming Out Slowly" LP (Animal Disguise)
Haptic "The Medium" LP (Flingco Sound System)
Silk Flowers (MySpace tracks)

BloodLust! Interview Series: #21 Climax Denial



Alex Kmet (Climax Denial, Ten Little Piggies, Godsick)

1. What have you been listening to lately?

Sombre Chemin - Doctrine, Bilskirnir - Wotansvolk, Antony & the Johnsons - The Crying Light, Rape-X - False, and The Names - Swimming

2. Have you been to any interesting concerts recently?

I have to give this one to some local boys (MKE/Madison), Reptile Worship. I've seen them a few times in the past couple months and it always blows me away. Really heavy droning industrial noise, powerful stuff.

3. Can you name a favorite film, or two (or a television program), from the last few months?

Class of Nuke'Em High, In A Glass Cage, and C.H.U.D. I've also been fiendishly watching the Nightmare on Elm Street and Friday the 13th series lately. As for TV, I've most recently been into Californication and Law and Order - Special Victims Unit.

4. Have you read a good book lately?

The Sex Life of the Foot & Shoe by William A. Rossi. It's fascinating, even if you're not a pervert!

5. Have you attended any recent art shows worth mentioning?

I don't follow art as much as I'd like to... haven't been to an opening since Pieter Schoolwerth's show last year. Recently I purchased the book Devil's Milk by artist Stu Mead, and it's pretty fantastic.

6. Do you have any current obsessions of note?

The main focus of my obsessive energy (and money) over the past year or so has been collecting (R.I.P.) Atrax Morgue releases. There are, of course, many other things I have been obsessing over, but you won't hear about them unless you buy me a drink or two...

7. Please tell me what recordings, projects (any medium), etc., you are working on right now, if anything.

I have several Climax Denial releases in the works: "Impulse" cassette on Syzmic Records, a tape on After Death Records out of Denton, TX. And several splits on different media with Fecalove, Rape-X, Molester, and Staccato Du Mal.

8. What do you hope to accomplish this year?

I am in fact planning something big, but I don't yet wish to discuss it.

9. Is there anything else that you would like to mention, announce, or hype?

There will be a much more in-depth interview with me in the forthcoming debut issue of As Loud As Possible magazine, which I understand also includes reviews of almost all of my releases, courtesy of Chris Sienko.


Monday, February 09, 2009

Comfort and Familiarity

Earlier:
David Bowie
"Low"
"Heroes"
"Lodger"
"Scary Monsters (and Super Creeps)"



Later:
To Blacken the Pages
(various tracks)

Good Party

A Bad Party show in Chicago always seems to have a dark cloud hovering over it but this time you cannot blame the band. Ghost Ice was a last-minute cancellation, which was definitely disappointing, as I have not yet heard Jeremy over the Empty Bottle PA. As a late-breaking substitution, Anthony Miller -- AKA Dirty Tony, AKA Hazmat, AKA the original Detroit upsetter -- joined Miss NC onstage. Dirty Chambers? Not a bad name. A relatively quick set of electronic frequencies and distorted minimal tones. Something to warm up the ears. Bad Party completed their increasingly high-volume set with no less than two covers; The Smiths and AC/DC. Michael's muscular and distorted bass really rose through the mix nicely. Nate overcame acid-burned throat to deliver his caustic vocals. The pair seemed to deliver on the promise of the hardened blend of noise punk/synth punk better than ever. They lived in some dark place between blown out bootlegs of Big Black, Suicide, and dare I say it -- since I have been combing through such things lately -- really early The Sisters of Mercy live shows and demos. Nah, Bad Party did not go goth, but if you have ever paid attention to the primitive DR-55 drum programming on early TSOM, you get what I mean. Our Brother the Native wrapped up the night. Some of the loops and textures sounded nice -- sort of what I expected from hearing some stuff online -- but the greater songs that unfolded were not really my thing. It had a lighter, prettier "vibe" than I would want after seeing Bad Party. The night wrapped up with a late diner session so that Isidro, James, and I, could continue the recording discussion...